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    JohnD aka Kenny 52
    Jul 17, 2020

    Incentive to carry on?

    in Football Index

    My port has become stagnant, probably like many I'm in limbo, can't do anything. Can't even sell up without a big loss. Many of us reshaped when the matching engine was introduced, and the effect of COVID. I got all my players 15-20p under what was then their market values. Since then most players have tanked with players stuck in sell queues, IS spreads are huge so it is impossible to sell unless you want big losses, even at Market sell, no one wants to buy a full priced player. How are order books going to help that? Forgive me if I have missed something, as I haven't been staying focused (lost interest) with developments. Are in play dividends going to be enough for people to go and buy a full priced player, don't think so, surely other incentives need to be added. When will prices recover? It's fine for anyone just coming into FI, until the next evolution of the platform. Right now i can't see how order books alone will change my position.

    152 comments
    152 Comments
    Woody
    Mar 26, 2021

    Amazing how it all turned sour so quickly. There will be new products start up but I’d be very reluctant now. Could be a good idea looking at Slack some guys are needing the support.

    Like

    Woody
    Mar 26, 2021

    Well that’s FS bust as well this morning. I really thought it was a well run product but goes to show you’ve no idea what’s going on behind the scenes. Lost about 4K between FS and FI. Not a good start to this year. I’ll stick to stocks n shares now I think.

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    Westy
    Mar 26, 2021
    Replying to

    Yeh gutted. I'm hit for 6. Not sure what to do with my Sorare pot now. They are very different entity though I suppose.

    Like

    Woody
    Mar 26, 2021
    Replying to

    I’ve nothing in sorare and feeling a bit burnt with these products. I had about £200 in cash in FS i don’t suppose I’ll see that either.

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    Westy
    Mar 26, 2021
    Replying to

    Yeh, think I'm 10k down net dep between both now. Might have to just quit it all and get rid of this site too. Maybe turn site into a warning and help center.

    Like

    Woody
    Mar 12, 2021

    Well the management finally fecked FI up big time. Sad times and feel sorry for anyone that’s lost money. Looks like they’ve shut the forum today as well. Let’s hope they have large cash reserves to at least pay people something but looking at the lies they’ve told us I think that’s unlikely.

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    Westy
    Mar 06, 2021

    This must be last plan to try and turn corner, money can't leave, it buys them time, but doesn't look good to me, its an 80% div reduction, so top end are going to be worth pennies, lower end might actually do OK. I've never seen twitter so bad though. Il be surprised if FI survive this one.

    Like
    Woody
    Mar 06, 2021
    Replying to

    Yes looks like a last roll of the dice and the next few months will be touch n go. Scarey to think how the FI hierarchy have fecked a great platform.

    Like

    Woody
    Mar 05, 2021

    I’ve just read the new announcement on the forum. Looks like they are cutting their cloth to suit the lower income they are getting now. A few guys saying they are going to close FI soon but surely it’s not that bad. I’ve got next to nothing in there but wouldn’t like to see it fold.

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    Westy
    Feb 15, 2021

    It's such a mess. I think more and more are starting to wonder how FI get it working again. For them and us. I'm expecting a promo and some good news on the 22nd to go in hand with them being able to mint at any price that day... They will want to mint so want people pressing Buy, but also they won't want to mint cheaply... So I'm thinking they've got an Ace up their sleeve, or atleast a 10% bonus... I'm looking fwd to it, surely things can only get better! If they really expect to be able to just start minting and cause more il liquidity doing so and mint at these low prices (meaning they may very well need to reduce divs) I think too many, even panda and fig, will get angry.

    Like

    Woody
    Feb 15, 2021

    Seems to be very negative on the forum again the last couple of days? Hard to keep up as the last time I dropped in quite a few rocket 🚀 chats going on. I’ve not got much left in there now just interested to see what direction the management will take next.

    Like

    Woody
    Jan 22, 2021

    Yip I’ve saw a lot of advertising the last few weeks but I don’t think they’ll keep customers now. The product used to be so simple and fun. I suppose things can only get better🙂

    Like

    Woody
    Jan 22, 2021

    I’m not really clued up on the issuance issues. I liked it when things were simple and you could buy and forget. I saw some mention on the forum of a newspaper article (guardian?)that was critical of FI.

    Like
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    Westy
    Jan 22, 2021
    Replying to

    There's been a big twitter fall out of FI users versus Betfair users. A well known Betfair user did a video on FI pretty much saying it looks a scam/ponzi and told people to sell up/not use it. That guardian article came in after lots of twitter name calling etc. Not good reading. Yeh from what I get about issuance is that FI now don't have to wait for price rises to start minting and definitely don't need to wait for past peaks. They can basically issue shares when they want on a player with some sort of 1000 share limit a day. It will stunt cap app a bit and make selling harder. I saw some data today showing MDEs based on the season so far, it looked ridiculous to me. About 10 players would have won 3~5p and then about 30 2p, about 100 1p...rest 0p. This has been a big survival move by FI which is good, but by no means is it an ipd replacement or even a real dividend boost. My hopes are in the message about incremental improvements, I hope there is more to come once they start steadying their finances and on boarding more customers. Seeing a lot of advertisement right now.

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    Westy
    Jan 21, 2021

    Think it's disgusting they haven't replaced the value removed to ipd players. Luckily I hold top end so the extra pennies will help pay off the rotting lower end. Good for top end, regular divs coming by winning pb plus this when they just miss out with no refreshing needed. But yeh overall its more warning signs than positive I'm afraid. I suppose they're dressing it up as a trial and they want feedback. Easy to do a 100% div increase on these in future... Which might help balance the %div rises/decreases next review. Vesp isn't happy with the issuance update, I haven't looked at that properly yet. And the 1 million cap means nothing really, especially as they could increase it at anytime.

    Like

    Woody
    Jan 21, 2021

    Well that’s the new dividends announced. What’s the general thoughts? Looking at the forum it seems to be a 50/50 split on peoples thoughts. I’ve not been on FI much since Christmas so I’m not sure if people were expecting rockets or not. Looking at the new structure I can’t say I’m in a hurry to deposit more at this time.

    Like

    MrWh1te
    Jan 01, 2021

    Hi


    Yes I have a complaint with IBAS. I did go through FI complaints procedure, and they admitted Cole said IS would stay but said their t and c take precedent. They turned down just about every part of the complaint. Oh and the closed my account for complaining too much, leading to this complaint.

    As an example as to how FI handled my complaint, one of my complaints was:


    One of your users on your forum have posted a lot of nasty stuff about me. One such post claimed I 'was as bad as covid'.


    Their response was:

    'We are worried about your mental health as you have claimed you are as bad as covid.'


    They use mental health as another reason for closing my account. They said it was causing me to chase losses (I never buy and sell, I just let the shares sit there). I called them out on that and they admitted my account shows no worrying signs.


    I have heard and spoken to many people who have had their accounts closed for complaining etc. On most occasions, FI use the mental health excuse. It is ridiculous.


    As it stands, I do not know the state of my account. They are selling my shares, at 'market price', I don't know which have sold and which haven't. Any that don't sell will expire. They refuse to tell me which ones have sold and which haven't.


    The first part of the complaint is private and basically talks about how FI actions meant I was targeted with abuse across several social media platforms. This abuse is still on-going and I am sure some of you will have seen some of it on twitter. I will keep that part private as it is subject to an on-going police complaint.


    The second part is as follows:

    2)

    a) That the removal of IS (instant sell) played a considerable part on the huge drops in players across the board in Football Index. This was a fundamental change in the terms and conditions of the bet.

    b) That in communications from the owner of Football Index, a Mr A Cole, he stated clearly that FI backed IS was a fundamental part of Football Index. He led to believe FI backed IS would remain. FI backed IS was a fundamental reason for the high prices in players and it was obvious that the removal of FI backed IS would cause the crashing of prices.

    c) Instant Sell as it is on Football Index is not representative of FI backed IS and this is the reason why prices have not recovered.

    d) That in removing FI backed IS, you changed the odds of the bets in a huge way, in some instances turning a 10-1 bet into a 1-10 bet, whilst putting all the risk on the customer and removing all risks to yourself.

    e) That your advert “Cash out when you want, it’s your call. You’re in control” also led to believe that this would remain and I consider that as false advertising.

    f) In an announcement to customers, Football Index and Mr A Cole have accepted liability for the losses players have taken in Football Index.

    g) That in removing my account for a frivolous reason and denying myself my full funds at cost price in combination with the admitted liability, that you are liable for the full amount of the shares bought at the highest point.


    These complaints are now in the hands of IBAS and was submitted on 21st November. They have up to 3 months to respond. I think they will say I have to then go to the gambling commission, which I will do. And then finally the small claims court. I am following procedure but intend to see it to the end. It is tricky and I am conflicted because it could bring about the end of the platform. This is the reason (and the only reason) that I am going small claims court instead of bringing a court case on behalf of what would be over 100 people.


    I am happy to answer any other questions you may have.


    Like
    MrWh1te
    Jan 01, 2021
    Replying to

    @Westy They did acknowledge that they won't use that ad again, someone else had complained to ASA and had it upheld (someone on here but not my place to say who, I am sure they will say if they want people to know).

    My feeling to that is - They advertised to say you could cash out when you want. People bought shares based on that ad. They then accept the ad is wrong and their only 'punishment' is to not use that ad again, leaving customers to get screwed.

    Like

    Woody
    Jan 01, 2021
    Replying to

    Hi Thanks for the update. Are they returning funds from sold players to your bank account since you can’t access your account? I rarely look on FI now as it just bores me, must be hundreds of others that have gave up on it.

    Like

    MrWh1te
    Jan 01, 2021
    Replying to

    @Woody Yes so what they do is list all players for sale (at which price who knows, your guess is as good as mine).

    Then once a month, they put any cash in my balance into my bank. But they won't tell me what and how much, so I don't know which shares I still own.


    So far I have had £800 back. When closed I had £400 cash and £1000 shares, so can only assume I have another £600 in shares.

    Like

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    Westy
    Dec 30, 2020